American Film Foundation, tucked in a cozy
quadrant of beachhouse offices behind a large
ocean-facing building in Santa Monica, hosts "Return
With Honor" filmmakers: Terry Sanders and Freida Lee
Mock. The pleasant courtyard feels more like a
backyard, as the two filmmakers and I sit at a
poolside table. Terry inspects the video camera (I
use to record dialogue), positioning it between he
and Freida for the best audio.
RA: How difficult was it
finding the N. Vietnamese footage contained in your
film?
FLM: We knew that there was some footage.
That they, in N. Vietnam, had filmed the war in black
& white 35mm for the purpose of showing it as
propaganda in their own country. Actually, they were
very open to our using two of their three
archives.
TS: It wasn't that it was difficult.
Rather, it was miraculous that we found the actual
POWs in our film on their footage being captured or
held ... 30 years before!
FLM: We asked for generic footage, you
know, like plane crashes and by the way ... would you
have a shot of Alvarez? And then it popped up! For
filmmakers, that was like gold.
TS: It made the film very special ... like
a second unit that could go back in time. And the
other thing was one of our interviewees was an
artist. So his firsthand sketches bring another feel
to our film. We didn't use any narrators just the
voices of the people who lived the experience.
FLM: In our visa application we had to
write down a description of our film.
TS: Basically, we told them we were going
to make a piece in which the former POWs would be
telling their own story.
FLM: And also we were not interested in
looking at it from a good-guy/bad-guy point of view.
We didn't have an agenda. We weren't there to make
them look bad.
TS: In the film ... well, one N. Vietnamese
guy fixes a POWs leg. I mean, if some foreign bomber
parachuted into LA after dropping bombs on it ... he
might get cut into little pieces. So...
RA: Were the POWs difficult
to locate? And how interested in your project were
they?
TS: They're all networked with email.
They're very close. They're best friends.
FLM: We asked two POWs in the beginning to
be our liaisons.
TS: Also the inception of the film came
from three graduates of the class of 1965 of the Air
Force Academy. They asked us because of our MAYA LIN
film, because it was human and rather apolitical.
RA: Why are only six or seven
wives featured compared to 30 men?
FLM: The foreground story is the survival.
How that effected the homefront is touched on, but
that's really another story.
TS: Yeah, there's lots of interesting
stories. How about the N. Vietnamese captors? That'd
make another interesting film.
RA: How would you respond to
those who may see this as an Air Force propaganda
piece?
TS: We had absolute creative control ...
period. If it comes off that way, then that's their
perception.
FLM: That was not our intention. We are not
military people.
TS: It wasn't our intention to either
attack or support.
FLM: If you do a story about people who
believe in their country, it's going to come out
...
TS: Yeah, I think it's patriotic in the
best sense, without being flag-waving. And it
expresses the sorrow of war. It's not attractive what
they went through. We've gone through two wars
recently where no Americans seem to have died, sort
of a video game thing; so "Return With Honor" is a
reminder that Americans as well as others died.
FLM: Then there's the story of coming back.
There was one POW who served 7 and a half years in
these camps, then came home and a week later
committed suicide. It just makes you think, what
keeps you alive and what crushes you? What belief
system keeps you going?
RA: It was good to see that
your featured POWs seemed to be doing fine these days
(I mean it would certainly be easy to understand if
they weren't), how about the others?
FLM: We selected this group pretty
anecdotally. I mean, we didn't prescreen. It's
interesting that they all seem pretty together.
TS: We heard of some others who didn't do
as well ...
FLM: I imagine if we took another 30, 95%
would be the same.
TS: All of these returning POWs were
welcomed with open arms by the American public. And
that was very healing for them. The homeless vets
some of us might think of, didn't get that
welcome.
FLM: Those guys say, "We served with honor,
but have yet to be honored."
TS: It's almost like if you were killed and
your name is on the wall, now you're honored, but if
you happened not to be killed, you're a schmuck.
TS: And the vets loved this film. I mean at
a screening, the projectionist comes out, "I was a
vet and no one knows it. Thank you for making this
film."
FLM: Nowadays, it's okay to be a vet.
There's even fake war vets.
RA: Did you attempt to
conduct any interviews with the N. Vietnamese
captors?
TS: The one interview we did do was with a
wonderful man who rescued McCain from when he crashed
in the middle of a lake in Hanoi. He was this
charming guy who acted out the whole rescue. We
didn't end up using it though, for the unity of the
film. It wouldn't have fit. And also there would have
been difficulty if we tried to interview the
captors.
FLM: And we would have been turned down if
we had asked the N. Vietnam military. They don't want
to talk about the past.
TS: Some people think a documentary .. if
you show A, then you have to show B. But that was not
what we were trying to do.
FLM: Yeah, our focus was how to survive,
keep direction and meaning. It would have taken it
off the primary path.
TS: They would feel very uncomfortable
talking about it -- I mean it's a communist country.
They have people looking over their backs. Whereas
our guys ... they don't care.
RA: What was your
budget?
FLM: Started at $900k went up 2.1
million.
TS: Because it's 35 mm. We shot super 16mm,
but the blow up to 35 was very expensive, $100k I
think.
RA: Where did you do the
interviews with the POWs?
FLM: In their own homes.
TS: You need to have the people comfortable
and forthcoming. If you take them to a studio even if
it's their own city, they dress up and feel
uncomfortable. But this way ... the black back drop
equalizes everybody and concentrates on the people.
We filmed for a couple hours of each one.
RA: How was it watching these
guys, sometimes at tears in their testimony?
FLM: We sometimes stopped.
TS: Or just didn't use the footage. You
have to be careful, not only for them, but for the
audience.
FLM: You know it's a privilege to be there
in front of that honesty.
RA: "Return With Honor" is a
fine piece. Now Freida, changing the topic a bit,
tell me a little about your upcoming Frank Zappa
project?
FLM: Well it's a feature-documentary
portrait film of this great musician, composer,
social critic. He's very honest, outspoken, all the
things that we admire. I just thought he was amazing.
I think there's a great following ... a lot of
"Zapfans."
RA: Your production company
is non-profit, what exactly does that mean?
TS: It's allowed to accept grants from
foundations to fund its films. It's basically an
education film company.
FLM: Realistically... documentary films
aren't big money makers.
TS: They're non profit anyways.
(chuckles...)
FLM: It's one way to fund your project. At
the same time, should there be revenue, we'd put the
money into the next project.
TS: National Geographic is a non-profit. It
has no stockholders.
FLM: We're not adverse to profits.
RA: Anything else?
FLM: It's all said in the film.
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